A Conversation with Naresh Vissa
Naresh Vissa of Krish Media & Marketing spent some time sharing his vast experience with marketing — particularly email.
Author of 'Podcastnomics' and 'Fifty Shades of Marketing', Naresh has worked collaborated with some of the best direct response companies in the world. His work in other media, including online radio, podcasting and media informed his insights into email.
Naresh leads Krish Media & Marketing, putting his expertise to work helping a wide range of clients.
TRANSCRIPT
Matthew Dunn
Good morning. This is Dr. Matthew Dunn, host of the Future of Email Marketing. And my guest for a great conversation today is Naresh Vissa, founder, CEO of Krish Media and Marketing, He’s a super experienced marketer, as well as multiple time bestselling author. Naresh, such a pleasure to have you aboard and to connect with you. Welcome.
Naresh Vissa
Thanks so much, Matthew. And I'm looking forward to talking about one of my favorite topics, which is email marketing, why is your favorite because without email marketing marketing is I don't want to say impossible, but it is a lot tougher email marketing makes marketing easier. And if you've heard of the 8020 rule, I'm sure many of your listeners have a percent of your business comes comes from 20% of your clients, you'll be able to find out who those 20% are through email marketing, filter, desk guide, it's a very good filter. And it is it is still King it people thought in 2015 or so oh, you know, emails dead people aren't using email anymore. No email, there are other ways to market Don't get me wrong, there's still 20% right 20% of marketing can be done in other ways. And you can tap into those ways. But email marketing is, is still King, it saves so much money. It's the way to go.
Matthew Dunn
It's also one of the if not the only digital channel that doesn't have someone in the way saying pay me.
Naresh Vissa
Yes. Well, that's the point of email marketing, it's you own your email list, the email list is the most important asset a marketer can build, whether you're a restaurant or a brick and mortar business, or you're a corporation, the email list is something that you own now, less than MailChimp or eye contact. If they shut down if they your list disappears, unfortunately, you don't own anymore, but for the most part, you own it and their entire businesses built around that email list selling that email list marketing to that email list. When I say selling it, I mean, I mean, we I've helped sell multiple businesses, largely because of that email list of Rob Wow.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah, that's, that's, that's it's a great way to frame the value of it. One of the conundrums of one of the conundrums of email where it fits in the digital marketing space, one of the things that got me interested to have had these conversations about the future of it. So I email has been around a long time. It looks it doesn't look as as silly and, and high tech, although there's an astonishing technology stack, making it all work as the flavor of the month apps or messaging channels or whatever else. But it's the one that's an asset, the list is an asset, the relationship you can build is is an asset and not it's not someone else's assets. To your point that's from your 50 shades of marketing book. Correct. Right. So
Naresh Vissa
I'm the author. Yep, author of the book 50 shades of marketing, whip your business into shape and dominate your competition. In chapter two of my book, I tried to order my chapters based on importance. Yeah, so chapter one is all about direct marketing and the concept of what is direct marketing, which I think is the most important concept you can learn in marketing. But then you tie that into email chapter two is called why the email list is the most important asset a marketer can build and direct marketing ties into email, because when you send out an email, now you're directly marketing to people, you have their information, they've already come in through some kind of funnel. So you have their there, you have the lead information. And email marketing is the fastest, cheapest, cheapest and easiest way to engage with your audience. It's like you brought up earlier, there's no middleman who you're paying a ton of money to, you might have to pay a couple of $100 if you have a huge, huge email list. 1000 Plus or maybe even 50,000 Plus, but it's worth it to pay that $100 $150 a month to manage that list, because you'll be able to monetize that. That's a lot of followers who you've built up if you have 50,000 people that's a
Matthew Dunn
lot. Yeah, that's a bit that's a that's a big list. Now you you you spend some time I read your I read your bio on LinkedIn, whoa, on, among other places, Stansbury and Associates slash Oh, Gore, financial, and I happen to know a little bit about it and went, Wow, those guys played a big scale, really big scale.
Naresh Vissa
That's why I learned at all. When I say learn at all, I mean, my first job was as a 16 year old as soon as I could drive, working at a marketing company and that's where I was introduced. To marketing, not online and digital, but just marketing in general. Yeah. And the biggest takeaway that I got there was how to prospect so how to find people's information, how to find people at companies, or just people on the internet, who we needed to target who we needed to sell to and finding their information, their name, their first name, last name, phone number, email address, where they work their website. That was such an important skill to learn, because you'll be surprised most people don't even know how to do that, how to find somebody to contact, right. And so that was as a 16 year old, I got that experience. And you fast forward when I was right out of graduate school. Actually, while I was still in graduate school, Stansbury hired me as an independent contractor for a side project, which turned into a division for the company and I graduated from graduate school moved to Baltimore, where they're headquartered, Acorah publishing and Stansbury and took over that division and grew it. And that's where I learned. I took what I learned when I was 16. And I expanded on it and learn all about email marketing, because email marketing, at least back then to this was 2011 2012 2013, email marketing was was king. It was king and it still is king for them. So I got to learn the ins and outs of the business, not just financial publishing but of online and digital marketing, e commerce, just online and digital in general technology. That's where I was able to, to learn because schools don't teach I had Joe's gonna
Matthew Dunn
ask
Naresh Vissa
you. Yeah, I just graduated with a graduate business degree from Duke. Yeah, from one of the best business schools in the world. Yeah. And you didn't learn any of this stuff. Because they didn't know the professor's got their marketing PhDs, pre internet. Yeah, and, and so when you when your research is heavily based on pre internet ideas, we're gonna miss out on a lot of things. Yeah. And that was one of the, the inspirations write my book 50 shades of marketing. Nowadays, in leading business schools, you have all these wonderful marketing professors who got their degrees pre internet will 50 shades and marketing talks about principles, strategies, techniques, resources, that you need to be a good marketer in the age of the Internet, and the pandemic comes in my prediction in the book was that the next recession that would come in the book came out in 2015. My prediction was an extra session that would come would force people to work from home would force companies to hire more independent contractors, outsource overseas would force businesses to digitize and to go online and digital. And all that happened, do pandemic or not, I think it was bound to happen.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah, yeah. It's a accelerated perhaps.
Yes.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's been it's been quite something to watch. In the last in the last year, sort of everyone jumping, jumping. Way ahead. And, and for those of us who, I mean, I've been telecommuting in one way, shape, or form for 20 years. So I was like, yeah, welcome to my world, guys. But it's a big adjustment. And we're not going back.
Naresh Vissa
So I'm also the host of a podcast called the work from home shell.
It's Yeah.
Naresh Vissa
Are you really? Yeah, yep. And we we got started as soon as the first lockdown happened in March of 2020. My one of our directors at Chris media marketing, the company that I run, he handles our web stuff and our podcasts, a lot of our podcast editing and production. I said, Look, we got to come out with this podcast because this pandemic, yeah, it's not going away. And and it's gonna be here for many years to come and work from home is going to become a thing, not permanent, not 100% work from home, it was gonna, they're gonna see a huge, huge segment of the worldwide population shift from office to work from home. And I still do think the office has its place, not because people are more productive in the office because they're not. I think the office has its place because large corporations, they have cultures that make that they they need to keep they as sad as it sounds. Look, I worked in corporate I worked for a large wall street bank I worked for, like I said, Stansberry a Gora, which is more progressive, but it's still considered a corporate environment. And the corporation's they like to control their people. They like to control their employees there is no there's not much autonomy. They want their people especially if you don't work in tech, or in it. They want their people in the office so they can see what they're doing. They want to control essentially their lives. And, and so there that's not going to change the pandemic has has disrupted that for two years. But I think you're gonna see the large corporations tell their workers, Hey, you know what you got to come back into the office, especially if they own the real estate, they're gonna say you got, you got to come back and
Matthew Dunn
see if they if they don't, that's an interesting thesis. And I would I would, I'm just seizing on it if they, if they don't, if it's if it's work from work from home, some part of the time, it's going to be keystroke loggers, monitors, like, just you can, you can have just as much sense of what someone's getting done, whether they happen to be sitting, so waste of time to me, I mean, it's a waste of time and energy if you're going to micromanage your employees like that, and get key loggers. And yeah,
Naresh Vissa
yeah, and see, track their time. It's what's the point, you know, like, the goal is to get the job done, it's produced results. And whether you do it in the middle of the night, whether you're working one hour a day, or 10 hours a day, the goal is to get the work done. And the work essentially becomes managing other people and what they're doing on their computer. And what kind of job is that? That's a job that needs to be gotten rid of. So the Initially, I was very bullish, I was like, you know, work from home is going to become permanent. But now that I'm seeing, I'm learning that the office, the companies are, you know, they're, I think the government has become big brother, the medical industry has become big brother, and corporations, big tech, I think I've become big brother, as well. And so I don't think work from home is going to become corporate is is going to become a ubiquitous, ubiquitous exercise.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah, I'm curious, because and I don't disagree with you, by the way, but when you put on your CEO, you know, running running a company hat, and you're trying to figure out how to make the business, go and make the business effective and, you know, keep employees effective. What they do is like, do you find yourself looking at it through a different different lens, when you're making those decisions, then, then the sort of
Naresh Vissa
not theoretical, but the author's view of it, if you will, what common sense tells you work from home, so we can stop paying all this money and leases and rents? Yeah. So that's why I say the small businesses, I think they will let their people work from home, because it's a smaller group, it's more intimate, you don't get lost in the shuffle. I've worked at these large corporations where you're literally another number. And there are times when you just you don't even show up to work and people won't notice. Yeah, I've worked at companies like that. And, and so those are the companies that are going to ask their, their people to come back into the office. And, and I do think they're also the companies where eventually they do find out if you don't show up to work, they do find out. And even if you get your work done at home, it becomes an issue because there's so little work to be done at these huge large companies, and you don't have space to operate. Because they're so big. I mean, you have no voice, you have no autonomy or independence. And so your manager, essentially, if we talked about this on the work from home, show that your manager becomes so bored, that they want to manage you, they want to control you, they control your life and love. That's why I went out, started my own business did my own thing.
Matthew Dunn
I was gonna ask guys,
Naresh Vissa
I am not, I'm not very good with other people or other things controlling me or my schedule or my life, I'm not in luck. There are many people who thrive. I have family members who cannot operate without being controlled without being fed, you know, turning on the bed, you know, anything that they need to believe anything that they're told, and they need to be told what to do. And most people quite frankly, are actually like that. I'm, I'm just not for
Matthew Dunn
whatever. It's and that's me. That's, that's an that's part of that's part of the foundation I'd expect from from an entrepreneur that that that sort of, look, I need to I need to do this my way, my own pace, you know, the worst thing in the world is to is to get told slow down right or, or do it this way, we know this way. It's not necessarily effective. Let me let me throw a different one at you and get your reaction to it, though, on. There's a book I ran across seriously, I think 20 years ago, the social life of information. Paul, do good. And john Seely Brown, written before Facebook existed. And it was pretty fascinating because they they delved in and did hard, hard research to back a surprise thesis that socializing is perhaps the most effective way that we share, build, learn from from each other and with each other. And I find myself thinking that there's going to be companies that Let's say we need some time where you're as live and connected with each other as possible, not for the purpose of of control structure. But to enable the the riff and the collaboration, that's, that's can be harder when you're mediated when you're physically separated. Any thoughts about that?
Naresh Vissa
Yeah. So there are two different thoughts here. And I look, I remember working on team projects, group projects, and you have that riff. And the end result is ends up being really good. And what I learned in that experience is you don't need this because it can cause a lot of drama, it can cause a lot of problems, because at the end of the day, you are butting heads with people. In order to reach an overarching goal, what I learned is, as a hiring manager, you should hire good quality talent. And that way people trust each other and their abilities. So if you're working on a project, I'm actually the type of guy who will go ahead run with the project, I don't need help with it. If I need help with it, I'll hire my own people. And then I'll hand it off to somebody, you know, a team member and say, Hey, here's what we have. You take it from here, and they tweak it, and they mess with it. And they play with it. And they improve it and they make it better. And there is no riffraff butting heads. In that case. It's like okay, the final product, the final product, you know, it's gone through many eyes, different sets of people. And this is a way that it's been done. I feel like that's a much better process than putting five people in a room together and having them it's called a war room. They call it a war room. That's what companies call it because it does become a war room. Right? And then it's it's kind of like a relationship like once once you just give up, you just shut your mouth and you just don't even care. You stop talking and and that's where things can can get sour and go bad. So the way my company is set up is I let people do what they what they do best. I don't ask my designers to be copywriters. I don't ask my copywriters to be web developers, I don't ask my web developers to do SEO. You let people do what they do best, and you trust that they're going to do a good job. And that's for anything, I also run a startup real estate investment firm. And I'm not I only start butting heads when stuff isn't getting done. And when I have to micromanage the goal of an entrepreneur or a business owner, is to start something that generates cash flow, so you can make money so you have freedom to do whatever the heck you want. And one thing I didn't mention is I'm a stay at home dad, my son sleeping right now, in the room, he's he's a year and a half. And I'm able to do this because I don't have to go into the office, I don't have to go in somewhere where someone's overlooking my shoulder. And, and look, I have some help my wife's off every other week. We have a nanny who comes in five to 10 hours a week. So I've got some I mean, you have to I mean, you need and it's also good for you to bring in again that that outside third party who's going to do things that you're not good at who's going to tweak things here and there. But going back to the the idea of collaboration, I wouldn't have this much amount of freedom and autonomy and the ability to take care of my son you know 2122 hours a day if I didn't have this mindset if I was on zoom calls just arguing all day with my clients and with the people who work at Chris capital and Chris media marketing, I wouldn't get anything done value.
Matthew Dunn
Mm hmm. Wow. Wow. It's it's uh you make a good you make a good good case for it. I don't think it's everybody and I think he said the same thing you know, like if you've got friends relatives who prefer or thrive under structure under did have this this is what's next because it's it it it takes drive and it takes some energy to go ahead and do the next thing when it's not dictated right? You got to kind of figure it out yourself or make it up pursue the opportunity are and say okay, that's worth extra time I'll go for it versus here's the forum fill in the next you know, three pages of the form. Yeah, entrepreneurs to electronic forms I suspect hmm let's let's let's dot this back to email just for just because on we get more people working from home we got a more an even more digital and mediated existence, right. We were now putting our home life and our work life in our own spaces more and more, communicating with each other working with each other more via digital channels, whether it's, you know, live live video conference like this, or email or text or apps or fill in blanks. I The infinite number of digital tools we've got to work with on, I think there was a point in time where email was sort of getting poo pooed because it was a big because it wasn't this the flavor of the month, if nothing else, it because it's been around for so long. But I know email volumes have gone up since epidemic hit. And I suspect that's going to continue to be true that that that's still going to be like the home address the reliable channel, the one way you know you can get to people comments or thoughts.
Naresh Vissa
Love email, text message is not a replacement for email, text message is more direct the problem with text message is it's harder to to go back and check the text, they're more real time, whereas email is you can hit on read, go back, check out the emails, and respond to them. And also you're in front of a computer a lot of the time responding to emails, I mean, you could be on your phone, but you could always go back text messages, they come in, you read it and then they they essentially go away. You you move on with life, you forget about it. So email marketing is still I think the key, it's not the secret sauce 100%. But like I said, 80% I think is going to come through email marketing. There's nothing wrong with sending out email messages, more and more messages, just grow that email list. Because when you grow that email list, you are capturing your work traffic, people were interested in who you are what you do, and you can then monetize through ads through advertising. Or you can just build up an email list. And it can be valued because an email list is tangible and quantifiable. It is essentially a digital physical asset. That's what it is you own it. So the ROI on your email list is higher than any social media and I talked about this in my book 50 shades of marketing. I'd say look, Facebook can filter statuses, this was in 2015. It can filter statuses at any day moment, they can just go ahead and say, Hey, you know what? We don't like you. We're just going to shut down your Facebook page. Yes. Once you do that, guess what happened in 2020 2021? That's exactly what they did. If you if Facebook did not agree with your political views, if they did not agree with what you may have said, You got deleted. And there are people like former President Trump who had hundreds of millions of social media followers that he built up and they were deleted with just a stroke of a button. Yes, completely gone deleted, that's hundreds of millions of dollars in in money in revenue that he could have monetized out that he would have been full of tight donations, you know, whatever that's gone. And think about that, as a business owner. That happened to you and I we work with clients who that happened to because we work a lot in the podcasting space. And many of our clients may have said something political on their podcast. I mean, it's a it's essentially talk radio, like there's nothing wrong with saying something political Well, they said something political boom, flagged by YouTube, flagged by Facebook suspended by Twitter. It's it's really ridiculous. But that's another story. But with that being said, your mailing list, it's harder to get flagged. Because, to my knowledge, the ESP companies, they have not taken a political stance. And if you want to send out a note, send out a note. Just don't, don't be too scammy Don't be too spammy.
Matthew Dunn
Let your on your on your yard, some rich ground here. Let me throw a couple things at you that fit right into this discussion on I was I was involved in a conversation. A couple months ago, I think on the only influencers list, which is email marketers group. And we were batting around an announcement that came out of MailChimp on about their terms of service, and they want to say this is three months ago, give or take. And MailChimp went to the trouble of announcing a addition to their terms of service that said, essentially, we reserve the right to turn off your send if we disagree with the content. They put they put a foot in the private business, it's in their control. Yeah, but they put a foot over into that domain of saying we don't agree to be a common carrier and let anything go. We like the examples you gave a Facebook and Twitter, we reserve the right to say we don't think that's okay. No more send comments.
Naresh Vissa
Like they're private businesses, they can do whatever they want. As a business owner like you and me the way that you work around this MailChimp sends out a note like that. The first thing I would do is download that email list, export it into a spreadsheet and continue with MailChimp. continue to do what I'm doing. And if they banned me or if they flagged me, it's time to go to an alternative. And there are many, many alternatives out there. Unfortunately, there are not that many alternatives when it comes to Twitter or Facebook or Google. They have monopolies in their industry. Yeah, I mean, it really is a monopoly because Twitter is a very different platform than Facebook, which is very different platform than YouTube, which is very different from a Google search engine. So they do have the knowledge has Oh, Google it, Google it, you know, well, if Google does something to the search results, your suck. They don't exist all alternatives, but nobody uses. Exactly,
Matthew Dunn
yeah. And your point, I think we're I think we're in agreement here. In the world of email, which is in it's a bit distinctive about email, it's, it's relatively easy to say, I'll take my email, I'll good get my email activity done a different way. Right? Like, if business x says we don't want to send those kind of messages on your behalf, say, No problem, I'll go find someone else. There are hundreds of email platforms, hundreds, and none of them own the channel. here's, here's here's a concern I've got in the email space specifically. And sometimes I feel like the like, like, like the like the curmudgeon on this one. Google has acquired considerable market share in the inbox with Gmail G Suite. And it's terrific email client, I use, I use G Suite, because I think it's terrific email client. They're pushing out an interactive email technical standard called amp for email. And I'm bothered by the email marketing community saying this is a good thing. Like, they already ran off with the web, basically, which used to be kind of free range. And I don't want to see the same thing happen to email. Because if Google said, message x can't get through to your Gmail inbox, you don't actually have a choice to pick up your Gmail accounts, and mail them a different way. Yeah, yeah, I don't like proprietary standards. Maybe I'm old fashioned. I don't know. I love the free range thing. And the ownership thing, right, you got to earn that relationship with your email list that I'm in control of saying, I don't want to hear from you anymore. So it really becomes a relationship asset that, as you pointed out, is a is a big business asset, as well. And I'm hard pressed to think of other digital channels where that's still true.
Yeah, well, look,
Naresh Vissa
it's a it's very complicated, because now big tech, and the corporations and companies are getting involved, politically. And the problem I have is, if I'm talking to you right now on zoom, okay. And if I say something, that zoom doesn't like, yeah, good jump in to our conversation and say, Hey, this conversations over, right. You're not allowed to post it. Matthew, you're not allowed to post this on YouTube or whatever, and the recording is going to be deleted. They could easily do that, but they don't. Right.
Matthew Dunn
For now.
Naresh Vissa
For now, for now, and and look, there are certain things that I if if you're going to if you're plotting something illegal, if you're if you're if we're having a meeting about masterminding something bad. It makes sense, right? But if you're going to post an article, to the New York Post, which happened to me, I posted an article from the New York Post and Facebook put me in Facebook timeout, because they said this is a violation violation of privacy. Really, because I posted it in the article was it covered? You know, it published like a neighborhood the name of a neighborhood. And look, to be quite frank, I've even read the entire read like the first two paragraphs maybe right and and that's what I'm saying where they're picking and targeting certain viewpoints certain political views, and and trying to cancel them crap trying to delete them. And it's, as I mentioned, the private businesses, they can do whatever they want, but you as a business, look, just stick to this rule. Stay out of politics. Now, then the question is, well, what if you are what if that is your business? So like, Stansberry a Gora? Yeah, they use politics to market and promote their products. Yep. So then what do you do? You're just gonna have to see what well, they created their own servers, so they don't use MailChimp, right? They say screw that. This was years and years ago, they said screw this. We're just going to create our own email service provider, you're going to create our own systems. And we're going to run with it.
Matthew Dunn
Oh, interesting, interesting, man. Because Because you're operating on a set of defined open standards, you're actually free to do that. Yes. Not a cheap investment. But you're free to do that. Exactly. Yeah. Hmm. Interesting, where you can't say, I'm going to make my own Twitter.
Naresh Vissa
Correct.
Matthew Dunn
I mean, I could make a client where you and I could send short messages to each other. But it'd be a short conversation, because it's just the two of us. And it wouldn't be that sort of quasi public sphere that Twitter managed to make themselves into over years. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're gonna have to ask some profound questions about, you know, about the the the public, the public square, the public forum, on common carriage and the responsibility of this century's early monopolies. And you've mentioned a number of them on, I suspect, well, I suspect we'll end up dragging Amazon into that conversation, as well, because of their their dominance of some kinds of, of commerce, and certainly their their footprint, in the infrastructure in the in the cloud infrastructure. You know, AWS runs, a lot of stuff. And this is new territory for us, right? private businesses gaining this degree of influence we haven't we haven't grappled with recently, Standard Oil, you know, 100 years ago, is probably the closest example. When we dealt with that the way we dealt with it, then how are we going to deal with these? I don't know. And as one of the reasons that I've continued to be intrigued by emails, it's got it's this funny outliers, like, yeah, we're just gonna keep going our own way. It's kind of anybody can drive on the road version of digital that doesn't that hasn't gotten dominated hasn't gotten owned by one, one company. It's hard to censor email, because anybody can jump over and make their own servers. Stansbury did, yep. Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Um, where do you see Seo? Because I know you've got considerable expertise in that, you know, search engine optimization, and and that getting found on what used to be the free range of the web, and email like very different dynamics, but the you have to grapple with both as a business owner?
Naresh Vissa
Yeah, well, look, in the case of search engine optimization, there are many, many things you can do to improve your SEO without hiring an SEO team or an SEO expert. And you know what I'm saying, look, SEO can be very, very costly, we're talking 1000s of dollars per month, 1000s upon 1000s of dollars, in some cases, 10s of 1000s of dollars per month, I like organic SEO. So the we offer a service at Chris media marketing called online PR. And online PR is focusing on online media, getting you publicity through online media, whether it's through podcasts like this, video interviews, print online print media, so we run campaigns, and we get people online PR and that improves our SEO greatly in the those hit that because you have other people doing the SEO free of charge for you. So like, for example, I see what you're going to be doing is you're going to be writing some show notes, you're going to write my name, you're going to link back to my website. And, and and you probably have a lot of authority, you meaning your website, where this is going to go on, it's going to have a lot of authorities. So that's doing SEO for us. So people type in my name or my company's name, and they'll be able to see all the good stuff that comes out. Right. So I highly recommend that before moving into the more expensive SEO because look, it can get tricky, and it's a contract type of position and
Matthew Dunn
lag guard is what it is. Yeah,
Naresh Vissa
yeah, exactly. So if you if any of your listeners have questions, check out our website, Chris. media and marketing. That's kr is a marketing Christian media marketing, Christian media marketing, there's no animism Christian
Matthew Dunn
what it is, am I hearing you correctly in in? You sort of stated a thesis there that said on the quality content is one of your best seo tactics?
Naresh Vissa
Yep, absolutely. And if you can get other people to write that content for you, better, better.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah, even better. Even better. That's, that's good advice. And I think I think it's true of email as well. Honestly, like, quality content, keeps people in your list, spamming them to death with, you know, with meaningless drivel, they'll unsubscribe and go away. Like I said earlier, you got to earn that asset and keep earning that asset in the long run.
Naresh Vissa
Yep, absolutely.
Matthew Dunn
Yeah. We should probably wrap because you're a stay at home dad in a busy guy with a couple of companies to run but any parting advice especially for someone listening who saying I'm trying to be more effective with my email marketing, what would you tell him to do?
Naresh Vissa
Take email marketing, seriously, it's something you need to do. So I highly, highly recommend that you do it. Check out I want to offer my book 50 shades of marketing, with your business into shape and dominate your competition, free of charge, go to my website and erase fisto.com, get on my mailing list and contact me through the site. And I will send you a free copy of 50 shades of marketing. And if there's one chapter you're going to read or listen to, if I send you the audio book, it's chapter two, why the email lists the most important asset a marketer can build that has everything you need to know about email marketing, so terrific. take it seriously build that email list.
Matthew Dunn
I will I will make sure we put a hyperlink on this on this episode when it goes up on the site as well. Well, pleasant and wide ranging conversation it's it's it's always a privilege to learn from someone with with this kind of experience. And you're right in the middle of it now, you know, running your your companies as well. So you're not just talking theory from 20 years ago either. And, and I want to thank you for the time as well.
Naresh Vissa
Thank you. We just
Matthew Dunn
do on LinkedIn. So we'll wrap up my guest once again was Naresh vissa Krish media and marketing Krish investing as well. I think you said yes, capital. Yeah. Chris capital and then search under Naresh. vissa on on I suspect on Amazon for the two books. You're thinking about another book maybe?
Naresh Vissa
Absolutely. already working on already working on
Matthew Dunn
my book. Well, I look forward to it. I've got it. I've got it. I've got to get these twos. Thanks so much for the time to rush and we'll we'll get this whipped into shape and get the video back in your hands as soon as we can.
Naresh Vissa
Our Hey, thank you so much. Have a good one.