A Conversation With Luke Charlton, The Aussie Hermit

This conversation is like a masterclass in miniature.

Luke Charlton shares succinct, powerful insights into powerful copywriting, and applying it to marketing. With over 1 billion emails sent and tens of millions earned for clients, he knows whereof he speaks!

Understanding your market in depth, and listening to what they say and understanding their needs and frustrations are key - 'that's where the money is made', as Luke says. Outstanding and helpful advice, wrapped in that warm Aussie accent. Don't miss this one!

TRANSCRIPT

A Conversation With Luke Charlton

===

[00:00:00]

Matthew Dunn: Good afternoon

Matthew Dunn: here. Good morning in Australia. My guest today is Luke Charlton and his one sheet says AKA, the Ozzy hermit, Luke. Thanks for, thanks for joining me.

Luke Charlton: But it had to be here. Pleasure to be here. Yes. I call myself Aussie hermits. Um, we might've get into that a little bit lighter on why, why I do that.

I did that mainly in my emails,

Matthew Dunn: so it'd be on. Okay. Gotcha. And you're, you're a coach for coaches. Is that a fair description?

Luke Charlton: Yes. One of those coach coaches, the coaches that's correct. Yes. I basically, I help coaches get clients. I've worked with, um, other high ticket sales [00:01:00] professionals as well. They're like, you know, um, if you're like an accountant or a lawyer or whatnot, but typical consultant is another, um, so like coaches or consultants are kind of like my main market, but, um, yeah, coaches just because I know the market really well.

I started off as like a health coach and then I transitioned to a business coach. So, um,

Matthew Dunn: Many coaches. And, and you walked into this out of, out of, uh, out of, uh, uh, original career in, in government service. Yeah.

Luke Charlton: So I mean, totally unrelated. Um, yeah, I was in, I was, uh, working for the government for the equivalent of the FBI basically, but, um, It sounds exciting, but it wasn't really, it's just an it, um, like doing service desk stuff.

So, I mean, I've worked there for a couple of years and then, um, I had a few couple of jobs in the government. I realized that this nine to five lifestyle wasn't for me and I realized I had to get out of there. And so in about 2013, I quit my job [00:02:00] and moved to London halfway around the. To, um, to kind of, that's what I really wanted to focus on my coaching business.

And I thought that, uh, you know, that, cause I lived in Canberra at the time, which is about 400,000 people, but I thought, okay, I moved to London. Um, there's more people in London. So that means it'll be easier to get clients. And it didn't didn't really work out that way.

Matthew Dunn: It's a fairly expensive place to lighten set.

It's so expensive.

Luke Charlton: I went from having like 20 grand in savings to. Like 30 grand in debt and had to borrow money off my parents and my grand grandma. And, and then, uh, when they said no, then I'm like, I have to come home now. And I ended up actually living with my Nan, um, in one of her spare bedrooms. Cause he was the only one that.

Like rent-free. Yeah, yeah. It was basically a big disaster, but I learned a lot about what not to do and growing a business. So everyone here can benefit from that today. [00:03:00]

Matthew Dunn: There's a, there's a longer list of don't do this, then do do this. Isn't there. Yep. Hang on one sec. I've got to, I've got to still the, uh, notification beast or we're going to get ding.

Dang, dang, dang, dang. Although the whole time, sorry about that. Um, Good. Good. Sorry about that. Uh, yeah, it's uh, that's a, that's, that's a big jump, right. Going from really large org on your own, especially on your own new culture.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. Um, I mean, London's quite, um, it's. Very, uh, it's like a melting pot. There's a lot of different, um, international people back expats and whatnot that from all different countries that come and come and live there.

So yeah, it is, it is very different to where I was from in, in, in case. Um, and you know, being, um, as I said, I would call myself the hermit, right? So I'm a bit of an introvert. I like to stay inside, but because I was there, I'm like, you know, I really [00:04:00] need to get out and meet people. So one of the things that I did, um, was like go to networking events.

So I went to Netflix. Like five nights per week when I was in London, because there's just that many wow. Business events on you could go to that many, those multiple on per night. And so, um, so I met a lot of people. I didn't get any clients from those events. Cause I think everyone else has the same idea without prejudice, desperate for clients.

So, um, so yeah, I met a ton of people, which was, which is really great, right. Relationships is what it's all about. But, um, yeah, it really put me out of my comfort zone, uh, being there. Definitely.

Matthew Dunn: And now one of the things having read a bit about your background, one of the things that it turns out you must have a heck of a knack for is, is copywriting.

Yeah.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. Not at that stage. I didn't there wasn't probably would have a lot more clients. But yeah, so I, what really got me into copywriting was when I actually came back from London and thought of living with my Nan, I [00:05:00] got a side job in a, um, like in a cocktail bar, just working at nighttime. And then during the day I was working on my business and that really, you know, I realized obviously what I was doing wasn't right.

And I took a couple of steps back and Geico, what, what, um, you know, I wanted to keep it safe. So one of the things I saw, I kind of started getting into is Rachel researching, like what did like the old school, um, business people do to kind of get clients even like, um, before funnels? Right? Because there was a time before funnels.

So I'd had the power to pivot, get clients in the beginning stages of the internet. And then before the internet, what do people do to get clients? And, and that's what kind of led me to copywriting, looking at how, um, discovering copywriting and looking at copyright. I've got clients and it was really simple for them out.

It was basically built a list and that usually entailed an advertisement in a, um, like in a newspaper or a magazine it's sometimes it promoted a free report. Sometimes it promoted a product, [00:06:00] but basically the strategy was assignment. It was kind of like get people onto a list. And then you mail that list consistently, like with an offer that they want.

It's that simple. And that's what, um, that's what, where I started to fall in love with copywriting. Um, and then also the simplicity of just building your list and mailing list, which for us is just building an emailing your list now. Right. Um, but yeah, that's when I started really getting serious about copywriting because I could see the power.

And I mean, what I love about copywriting is power. Basically what that means is that that kind of definition of how for me is the ability to control your, your, the outcomes of your life. Really, you know, so by being good at copywriting, you can basically write your own check in a way, right? You can, um, uh, what's that, uh, the guy from, um, uh, Stanley who created.

Um, the Marvel comics. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. One of the things he said in his biography [00:07:00] was like, you know, whenever I wanted to make more money, I just wrote more stories and they didn't even have to be like, particularly any, any good, but just, he just knew had to kind of write stories and just by producing more, he could basically, if his wife wanted a new car, he'd write a new story.

If you want a new house, he'd write a few more stories. And that is very, very powerful. And I think. That's one of the things that really drew me into copywriting and getting really good at copywriting was that the power to, um, yeah. To be able to write my own checks basically. And I think it's not all about money.

It's more about controlling my life or having it's a security thing, I guess, as well.

Matthew Dunn: Yeah. Uh, Beatles. That's a fetal Zanuck toe to, Hey, let's write a swimming pool right. When they were sorta at the top of their game. Exactly.

Luke Charlton: Right. Exactly. Right.

Matthew Dunn: Well, yeah. And. We'd still have the power, uh, to, to move, to

Luke Charlton: persuade the things words, even if it's in a VSL or a webinar or.

Um, it doesn't just cause it's don't want a sales page or like written words. We're still communicating. [00:08:00] We're still using copy, like in a podcast or whatever, or in a, you know, an audio cells, um, type presentation. We're still using words to persuade. So it's all, it's all copywriting. I just love copywriting, actual written, um, form of it because it's a bit more pure.

I think you can. Really work on that presentation and editors. And I dunno, I just, it's just a, it's just a pretty cool thing to be able to provide people. But I want to be a products or for a client. Like I still run ads to the clients, small handful of clients and, um, you know, spending tens of thousands of dollars per day.

And it's pretty cool to be able to go into a market that I have no previous experience with and be able to get them really great results because I know this, you know, just the fundamentals of copywriting. And you know how to create a message that people will, uh, will be attracted to, and that will make them convert into buyers.

And that's quite powerful to have that school.

Matthew Dunn: So I'm thinking in terms of the, [00:09:00] uh, quite a few, quite a few people who, uh, engage this podcast, video or audio are involved in email marketing. Stuck in an elevator with an email marketer, you know, eight to 10 floors or something like that. Is there short advice about getting better at copywriting that you'd give them?

Luke Charlton: Yeah. Um, My advice. Like I'm the guy that I'm not into. I run ads for clients. We run some, you know, funnels, rights and complex funnels. Sometimes they're tripwires or webinars or whatnot, but I'm what I teach is simplicity. So that the stuff that I teach is usually not that new, but it's what works. Yeah. So it's not that exciting or it's not that sexy, but it's what makes.

Yeah. And so th I, I prefaced that. I, um, give you that context and citing. The first thing that I would say is if you ever, if he ever wondering, like, what would make this market buy, you know, book an appointment with me, or [00:10:00] what would make them click on this ad or what would persuade them to buy whatever the question is, right?

In relation to getting them to attract, be attracted to you. And by the answer, the answer that the answer is always in the. Uh, you don't have to have a blank bit of paper. And this is what I tell my clients. That's not like you sit down with a blank bit of paper and go, okay, let me write an amazing sales page.

None of the first thing you do is you go to the market and you research the market and you find it. What are their frustrations? What are their desires? You know, um, what are the biggest questions? What are the biggest objections? So you get very, very clear about that market and you know them better than they know themselves.

That just by doing that, you'll get all, any ad you'll get. All the answers to your questions. Like what's gonna make the book an appointment. Oh, I want to lose 30 pounds in 30 days. I'm just going to promise that at the end of my emails right now, what's going to make them click, you know, so what's the best lead magnet to create, oh, they're frustrated with this, this and this.

How about I create a bit of content to help them with that frustration. So that's what I mean by the answers are [00:11:00] always in the market. Like this little copywriting is it, I'm just learning about a market intimately, and then I'm literally taking their word. And I'm reflecting it back to them. That's all, let's all, all we're doing.

Now I can, I can tell you a little bit more about how I did that in emails, if you want to hear about that. But that's the essence of creating a really great marketing message to create and create a message that sells is you just use the words, um, that the market uses and that way you can't fail because you're just using what they're, um, you know, telling.

But so, but people don't want to do that research. They don't want to do the, they don't want to do. Uh, do that work, but that's where the money is made. That's where you you're digging for gold. Um, and then, so once you identify like those common patterns, those common frustrations, then yeah. You just reflected that's, that's the main, if I just have one bit of advice for any business owner that wants to make more sales, you just need to know that, um, that will help you craft the right offer.

Let me, um, you know, write program, offer or create the right product. It's the answers are always in the market toys in the market.

Matthew Dunn: [00:12:00] Nice. Nicely put and it lines up. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I wrote a guest blog post for a, uh, email org that I'm a member of. Um, I don't think it's even published yet, but I kind of teed off on, I teed off on how sunk in data and tech, uh, email, uh, marketers can get.

And the loose sight of the purpose of marketing is Peter Drucker, right? No, no, no. Your customer well enough that the product sells itself, which is essentially what you do. Yeah. Yeah. As

Luke Charlton: you name it. So one of the things, um, like that, I, you know, you mentioned that email marketers, they get a lot of them get kind of buried in numbers or like open rates and whatnot and click like basically like, so I, I didn't even track my open rates.

Um, so what I, and this might be blasphemous, but I'm talking about,

Matthew Dunn: it's interesting though, that you teed it up. Sorry.

Luke Charlton: Like, okay. Maybe in the beginning, when you first growing an email list, you just want to [00:13:00] make sure people are actually opening them. Like, as in like there's not a tech issue. Right. So that's like what you want to use it for.

Um, but for me, the most important thing is are they booking an, uh, an appointment, right? That's, that's the main goal. Cause there's a lot of email marketers out there, um, that will, you know, be hired by a company and they'll go to the company and go, Hey, look, we got 20% off. You know this, uh, this month and we got, you know, 3% click-throughs and the, and the client's like, oh, that sounds great.

It's kind of like the it's kinda like the, um, um, the agency that goes, yeah, we've got a thousand likes for you on Facebook. Right. But like, how many sales did I make or how many appointments did you put in my calendar? Right. And so that's what you want to, that's really how you measure the effectiveness of an email campaign is how many sales did you make or how many appointments did though did those things.

Uh, book and anything in between like open rates, click through percentages, they can help you like a little bit identify, but even with tracking now being pretty inaccurate with Apple's security and all that stuff for me, like I [00:14:00] measured the fact that was on the email is did it get me asylum? Did it get me an appointments?

Everything else is really irrelevant from that stage. So

Matthew Dunn: focus on business metrics, not diagnostic sort of channel man.

Luke Charlton: Yeah, exactly. The diagnostics. Yeah. So that can kind of help guide you if there's problems. Um, usually I use them for tech in the beginning, but once I know that people are actually opening my emails, I just focused as it creating a bit of marketing message, like writing emails that people wants to read.

Okay. That's my main, like writing must have been one rate and then having an offer that they want to buy.

Matthew Dunn: Yeah. Yeah, it it's, it's great to hear it's, uh, put succinctly and simply it's not, it's not always easy for people to stick to that when sort of looking for it. If it feels to me sometimes, like it's an, it's an exhausting job.

Uh, if you're banging out campaign after campaign for a company, it's like, what do I say, new? What do I say [00:15:00] different? And, uh, we have a couple of inboxes we run to. Subscribe to everything on the planet, right? Yep. Yep. Gets repetitive really fast. And so frequently they're talking about themselves, not us.

Right? Your advice to the copywriters talk, talk, talk to me about me, so to speak. Um, yes.

Luke Charlton: Yeah, yeah. If you put the message within like that, we'll never get bored of themselves. Right. So if you think about them, you know, they'll, they'll always tune in, but there's, there are best practices, um, which I can talk about in terms of, um, making sure emails get read, and even making them fun for you to write as well, which you can get into if you

Matthew Dunn: want, you mentioned funnels.

And, um, I, I think I saw funnels. To some of the copy about your company. Like what's the, what's the funnel world these days. And what, uh, what, if any advice do you give your coaching clients about that? And

Luke Charlton: what, what do you mean? Like in what context?

Matthew Dunn: Well, um, there's a lot of, [00:16:00] uh, there's a lot of formulaic and turn key, uh, funnel offers.

And I found myself wanting to pick on click funnels a little bit, which isn't fair. And I'll hear people talk about my funnel. I'm thinking. More than anything. It's a psychological construct, not a magic technical conveyed.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. Well, that's the thing. That's why they, again, my message, um, that I say to my list is, you know, and I was this, I was the same.

Like I chased all the reason why I give this advice is because I've made all these mistakes. But, you know, I was saying I was chasing all these bright, shiny objects and the reason why people do it, it's kind of like when people go from diet to diet, there's this new diet that comes out and it's like, oh, maybe the reason.

'cause the, you know, I haven't tried this diet yet, so they give this a try for 30 days doesn't work or, um, or it works and they come off it and they lose the weight and then they're like, oh, that didn't work. So I think I'll try the next diet. Right? So then it's like chasing bright, shiny objects and funnel.

The industry of funnels is the assignment and, and a big part of it. That you just mentioned is because people think that the thing that's going to make them sex [00:17:00] successful is the funnel, right? It's the tech, it's the special bot strategy. It's the invisible funnels that it's the fact that it said low ticket tripwire.

Again, that's, it's not the funnel. It's the marketing message, right? At the end of the day, businesses, the market with a problem, you know, a product is a solution. And so what's the simplest way to get your offer in front of that market, the problem and the solution from the problem for me, I decided to keep it simple and build your list.

Get people onto your lists with the problem that you solve and then present them the solution through your emails. You don't need a complex funnel to be able to do that. So, um, you know, if you're trying to funnels, that's fine. But, um, for me, it's, you. Like, if, if you're earning over six figures, you plot, you know, mid six figures, but you want to try funnels.

That's that's great. But I say, look, if you're kind of six figures or below just getting started, keep it simple. We want to make sure that you've got an offer that people want, or you're communicating in a way that people want. And you just, otherwise, if you, if you, if you do a funnel, [00:18:00] usually what happens is, um, you hear.

Six months or more trying to set it up, like whether you had to create multiple products or upsells and down sells and complicated email automations and like a web, just a webinar. Like it, it sounds simple like, oh, let's do a 60 minute presentation. But again, I know working from thousands of business owners for them to sit down and do put together a 60 minutes sales presentation with the intro and the right content and thinking through all that, it doesn't take like a week.

It takes them months and then they have to sit up. And, um, and what's the opportunity cost there, right? Of not actually running any ads in that time. Um, so with, with my clients, I can get them generating leads with ads. When did they email those within four weeks? And these are people that have no experience with ads, like simply because we just do a simple lead magnet, um, and build their list.

Uh, but if I told them to do a webinar or a tripwire follow up, one of the other funnels like that will be, you know, six months down the line, still trying to get it together. And usually what happens is they run ads that make money. [00:19:00] And then they kind of, now we have to test, you have to bring them the webinar.

We have to redo it, and then you have to do another, spend another couple of thousand dollars on ads to test it. And that's the other thing that girls don't say is to test these phones. You usually have to spend quite a little bit of money to, um, you know, to test the funnel and the message. So, um, yeah, so that's like where I think, again, my, my advice to people that are under six figures that just want to get something consistent going.

That's my advice. If you're already at a certain level of fun, do the complex funnels, you got the time to do it. You got the cashflow. That's fine. Um, so that's kinda like where I, the advice that I give for people we're looking

Matthew Dunn: at funnels, it's good advice, right? Like stay stick with the problem and the people with.

Uh, don't start hitting them over the head with, with, uh, with tech solutions. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you work with clients still all over the world, I think you said.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. Yeah. So the place that I run ads are. [00:20:00] Uh, so the us, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, they're the four main countries that aren't the UK does because of the time difference.

Matthew Dunn: Yeah, it would be, that'd be a little tough. That'd be a stretch, right. If you're already, if you're already shifting to adjust it to, to those slightly.

Luke Charlton: And then every now and then I D I didn't get someone from Europe that comes through onto my list. And, um, and I sign up. But, um, yeah, it's not that, not that often.

Matthew Dunn: Do you find any big, uh, Cultural differences in terms of what works in the email. Let's, let's just focus on email for a sec in those different markets and like Canadian business coach, different approach from American business coach, for example, no, uh,

Luke Charlton: no, I just wrote the emails. Um, So for me, just from my personality, I just attract people that resonate with me.

Like usually, um, it's like when I'm running ads for clients, usually the way that the us responds will be the same way as Canada. Like those form on the Kairos, you [00:21:00] got the five main kind of Western countries like UK, Canada, us Australia, New Zealand, but usually. Um, pretty much the same. Um, what I, what I do notice is that, uh, Straley ans resonate with me more.

Um, so I ha like, if, if they're trying to choose between me helping them with their business or an American business coach, they usually choose swing more towards me because I'm Australian. Um, so there, there is that. Um, but in terms of like a marketing message, it's usually pretty consistent across those Western countries.

I have one client at the moment now that I'm doing a weight loss campaign for, and, uh, works amazing in Australia, but it doesn't work that great in the U S Canada and UK. It's quite strange. So, um, I'm just figuring out. Yeah, this is really, it's a great offer. It's like a $1. Um, so they had their businesses called the three-day diet and we have a $1 offer and, um, yeah, it works amazing in Australia.

It works okay in New Zealand, but just totally unprofitable in the UK and [00:22:00] the us,

Matthew Dunn: some, some little thing misfiring get.

Luke Charlton: And the click cost, by the way in those countries are like a quarter where the click cost is actually a quarter of what it is in Australia. So it's much less, the click cost is way less.

So what that means is the ads are actually on a click costs are actually performing four times better, but the clicks aren't converting. Yeah, that's something we have to figure

Matthew Dunn: out. Interesting. We didn't talk about this in our preliminary conversation, but, uh, I got to live in your country for a year granted a long time ago.

Um, so I have a least a little feel left in my memory for the things that were very much the same and the things that were like, oh, we got to figure out how to translate this somehow. W the beautiful place though. My God Australia, yeah. Was still jonesing to go back. It's it's been a long time, but I'm still jonesing to go back.

Uh, did not get up to your [00:23:00] neck of the woods quite, but, uh, a lot of time in Sydney and blue mountains. Yeah.

Luke Charlton: It's nice. It's very busy. It's busy. Yeah. Nice to lean as

Matthew Dunn: well. I kind of, it was kind of wishing that, uh, the office for the company I was with at the time had been in, in, in Melbourne or Adelaide, like that would have been a little more my speed, but oh, well, yeah.

Yeah.

Luke Charlton: Melbourne Stacey, to get around in some problems will tell you about the weather. It's not that great in Melbourne, but anyway,

Matthew Dunn: it isn't.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. The days are like one, you know, it'll be sunny in the morning and then it'll be raining like two out, like pouring down rain. Cause I'm going to be sighing.

Then it'll be like snowing the weather changes. It's very renowned for that for just changing on a dime like that really great day to a really terrible day or vice versa.

Matthew Dunn: Okay. Well, if you're, if you're listening and you're planning your vacation, take notes and you're going to get good wine wherever you go.

That's absolutely. It's absolutely true. Okay. Is there a. [00:24:00] Target's sort of size, you've mentioned, you know, over six figures under six figures, like, do you work with clients of all, all sorts

Luke Charlton: of, yeah, I work with, um, so the, the class that I run ads for typically in this seven figure range. Yeah. Um, but I've worked with generally the, I work with coaches on the six figures, just because most of the market is made up with people only under six figures.

It's just the way that it's like the law of 80 20. Um, but yeah. Six figure plus seven figures and even eight figure coaches. I've worked with that whole whole range. Wow.

Matthew Dunn: Wow. That's a. That someone's got an eight figure coaching business. Good for good on them. No, it's

Luke Charlton: not. And, um, it's yeah, it's I, it's not something that I would ever desire to run for the head.

They have a lot of stuff to manage and it doesn't look fun at all. Yeah. I'm just like me and my VI. That's like my whole business at the moment on may, in the future that get us like a sales person to do my. Um, but my [00:25:00] calls come from my email list. So by the time I click opt into my list, read my emails and they sign up to my list to my program.

And then they get on a cold day kind of like I'm very filtered out of the funnel side. I didn't do a ton of calls H week, but I, most of them convert and I'm happy with that amount, but it's getting to the point where I probably will have to hire a sales person, but that's how I want to keep my business kind of

Matthew Dunn: lane.

Keep it to keep it at a scale where truly under your control. It's okay. Right? Yeah. So if you want to hang out with two and four year olds, you can exactly

Luke Charlton: right. The right

Matthew Dunn: for, uh, first, first things first, um, as they say, actually

Luke Charlton: for people listening, that might sound a bit weird, but I have two kids, two, two, and a four.

I don't think we

Matthew Dunn: met. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Ran out

Luke Charlton: with two and four year olds. Um, I have a two year old and a four year old,

Matthew Dunn: uh, We've ended up talking about kids, like a number of guests on, uh, that I've had chance to talk with. Like somehow we ended up bumbling over it and, and, [00:26:00] and talking about kids, uh, kids that they've gotten, it's a, it's kind of, kind of a kick you'll learn about people a bit that way.

Um, what's the state of, uh, we're going off topic. What's the, what's the state of things vis-a-vis pandemic right now.

Luke Charlton: Uh, how did I, you probably don't wanna hear my thoughts on the, on the pandemic. You might get your podcasts banned, but, um, uh, yeah, it depends on, on the night of what the state is. Um, I think people are probably pretty over it at this stage.

Um, I think that, um, Yeah, I think it's silently become in the rear view mirror. People are wanting to basically move on, even though the politicians are trying to bring it back and bring in some new monkeypox now and whatnot. So I don't know. I, um, I have it's in the rear view mirror. My more shenanigans, finding more pandemics, um, in the future.

Uh, but I think there are other things coming up in the [00:27:00] future that are, that are much worse than what the pandemic was like. I don't think the economy is in very good shape. I don't think that, um, the food supply is in that good shape either. Uh, I think that's going to be a pretty serious problem in the coming months.

Um, so those two are the big ones, the economy and yeah. And the food supply. And I mean, I mean, that's already happening in other countries like Sri Lanka and I initial Lanka is having riots now because of the, I think India may have cut off the wheat supply to Sri Lanka, uh, a couple of weeks ago. So, you know, people think, oh, well, that's, Interline, it doesn't happen here.

But you know, in the U S for example, they're already food supplies, you know, there are. Food factory is being burned down randomly over the last few months. I don't know if you've seen that in the news. Um, I mean, it's not reported in the media. Um, but yeah, if you, if you do like a Google search, you get probably even not even on Google.

Um, but yeah, there's factories being burned down. There's the shortage in, um, [00:28:00] uh, the, uh, Fertilizer, uh, just, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of things that aren't going the right way at the moment. So my thoughts are I, if I was evaluating people, I was thinking I'd have some, some food prepared for a few months, at least a few months, food supply just in case.

Um, but that, so those are my thoughts.

Matthew Dunn: Well, ripple, M interception, the ripple effect coming out from, uh, the bread basket of Ukraine. Not, not being busy, being busy with other things at the moment. Um, It was just reading this morning that a weather pattern, the us is really digging wheat crops. And w like number three, producer, I think of wheat us.

So that's not, that's not good. Pile that on top. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a bit tight. We've got such a, uh, such an assumption that it'll just happen and show up. It's going to be a bit of a shock. I think. Yeah, a lot of people. And

Luke Charlton: then there's the inflation that's going to [00:29:00] like, uh, compound that as well.

Um, you know, people think like that the fed says, oh, you know, we're going to really, really want to tackle inflation. Well, why don't you raise the interest rates? Then they do a lot of jawboning and they do a lot of talking, but that does not much action. So I say, just watch what the fed does because what they do and what they say are like two different things.

I think they might do one more rate hike. But other than that, after that they won't be able to raise it anymore. Otherwise the, the economy will just, just fall apart. And then I think if inflation is going to get even more, so again, be prepared. Um, so the last

Matthew Dunn: day it's going to be a wild ride for awhile, I think.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I eat it. Intrigues me. You can leave the. Did her disease, disease and treatment side of, of pandemics. Apart as it, as a guy in the digital space for a long time, the adjustments that we've made quickly, where now people work like this. Yeah. [00:30:00] That's not going to go away. No, no,

Luke Charlton: no, no. I mean, for business owners, I mean, And the people would say to me during the pandemic, I was credited working from home.

I was like, oh, I've been working on this for like the last 10 years. It's not much of a change. I think a lot of entrepreneurs like that anyway. Yeah. I would like in a solo entrepreneurs anyway, I'll say, um, if you've got a company, obviously it's a little bit different with the staff and whatnot, but Solon, Farnaz, I think it's business as usual, but yeah, AF I think you're right in that there's been a lot more remote, uh, remote working, um, Into the future.

I think that we'll have a change

Matthew Dunn: for jobs that can be done that way to be fair, right? Like, yeah. Keep saluting, uh, the many teachers and healthcare folks. And so

Luke Charlton: on that I think, oh, if I had a, like, if I had a desire to build a company, I would want my stuff in the office. I wouldn't want them

Matthew Dunn: working from home.

Interesting. Yeah,

Luke Charlton: I would. Um, I think you, I think I've read somewhere a while back that you [00:31:00] actually get more out of your staff. If they're in the office with you than at home.

Matthew Dunn: I believe that just like, just on a human factors basis, you know, like how, how we're actually wired to, uh, to interact and that, that high-speed in for.

Did you take care of?

Luke Charlton: Yeah, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. Like as opposed to getting on like a zoom and doing all that and organizing a time and then, or even like, yeah, it's just, I don't think it's as efficient, um, as being in the office with someone. Yeah. There's drawbacks as well as each side. It's,

Matthew Dunn: you know?

Yeah. It's a, trade-off uh, you know, if you can manage to do that where commutes are not hellacious, there's probably more willingness. I keep reading the Wednesday. Office day as, as companies, at least in the U S are starting to coach people back in it's like you're kind of

Luke Charlton: landing to be a person that owns like commercial real estate because, um, yeah,

Matthew Dunn: yeah,

Luke Charlton: yeah.

Good. You need though. I think after like, if this account, if we do go [00:32:00] into a recession or some others, depression, you know, there might be some good opportunity to buy some commercial real estate, you know? Cause I bet she'll be like pennies on the.

Matthew Dunn: Well, some of the big tech companies in the, in the states have been, have been doing that.

I know Google has been acquiring office space. I want to say Facebook, Amazon as well, like interesting bet on their part. I mean, you could say they could afford it, but that's still a very deliberate decision. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I would not want to be in commercial real estate either. Like yeah, no, thanks. Um, okay.

Well parting thoughts about the future of.

Luke Charlton: The future of email potting thoughts. That is a really good question. Um, no, I didn't think like, I think email is going to be around here for around for a very long time. It's, it's a different medium, you know, it's never going to be replaced by like messenger or text, right.

Because they're, they're different mediums. Like you wouldn't [00:33:00] say. Like I said an email each day and it's an, it's an entertaining email and people love to read it. But if I sent that same email via messenger or text, it would really annoy people because that's not what you'd use those messenger platforms for.

It's not to get, it's not get content and read it. That's for conversation. I could conversations right quick back and forth conversation. So it's a different medium use for something the different way of communicating. So I think there's always going to be a place for email, anything. Something else overtook it.

That would be the new email, if that makes sense. So there's always going to be a way to deliver your message to people in a similar context to email. So I'm not worried about email changing in that regard, what I think from like a copywriting perspective and getting your emails open. Uh, and this is again, probably what we have a, you know, Uh, an easier way to understand how this works is to read, go to my website, Luke john.com/blog.

You can I just check all my emails on my [00:34:00] blog, right. But you can sign onto my list and get my daily emails as well while you're there, if you want. But, um, what I think in terms of the future of. Is to look at and copy and copywriting as well. Getting your emails, read and writing effective emails is you want to look at what people are engaging with, you know, where, where their, where their attention is.

Right? So people are watching Netflix. They're watching, you know, streaming, uh, YouTube, social media, and the reason why they're spending, literally, if you go look at like how much time someone spends watching Netflix per day on social media, they spend hours per day. And the reason why is because.

Basically these forms of content are entertaining. So people love to be entertained. So if you're struggling with people, opening your emails and, uh, engaging with them generally, it's because they're not that fun to read. They're not that entertaining. It might just be like full of content. For example, like content content is great, but usually that only works for a couple of weeks and the person like open rates go down and then no one, you know, they just put your [00:35:00] email in like the I'll great content.

I'll read it later. Everyone's got that like, Great content folder. I'll read it later type thing and no one ever raised that. And so what you wanna do is you wanna make sure that your emails are entertaining. Cause that's what people want. They wants to be entertained, right? They're spending hours on Netflix, but you know, if they're not taking a couple of minutes just to read an email, there's obviously something wrong with what you're writing an email.

I say, make your emails entertaining a very simple way to do that, which you'll see if you read my emails, it's just by telling stories and your stories can literally come from anywhere. Um, you don't have to have an amazing life again. I call myself the Ozzy Homer cause I'm inside most of the time. Right?

So your stories can come from news articles from will Smith slapping Chris rock. Right. That's a great story. Right? Um, so the stories are all over the place, entertaining stories. And so he told a story and then, you know, You tie that with you tie that in with whatever you are selling. Again, if you got rid of my emails, I'll say how I do that.

And you just, just model that framework. Um, but people, people really [00:36:00] engage with these emails. I get emails all the time. Like a lady sent me one and see if I can quickly pull it up here. Uh, she sent me an email saying, um, on here, but she I'll I'll do a paraphrase version. Um, actually, no, I got here. Okay.

Here it is. She said, look, I have to let you know, and I get emails of this all the time, by the way. Look, I have to let you know I've created a folder just for you. Every single one is valuable. Thank you. Um, you know, your copywriting is amazing. I think I, so, and I get people writing all the time saying, I love your emails.

Sometimes when I have a strong opinion, they might say you're an idiot, that type of thing, but mostly it's, it's positive. Um, and that's because I, I, I start with entertainment. Like I lead with entertainment. I make sure that my emails are entertaining, the first instance. And then I teach them something valuable from that story.

So the future of email is to those people. Focus on entertainment and, and understand [00:37:00] as they remember that the answers are always in the market. So what is the market? Where are they? Where is it? Where is their attention focused? Yeah, it's on Netflix. It's on YouTube. It's on things that are entertaining.

So you'd better make sure that your emails are entertaining. Otherwise, you know, they're not, they might stick around for the first couple of weeks, but after that, it, you know, it, it tends to die down pretty quickly. In terms of people wanting to engage in open, open emails,

Matthew Dunn: do you find. Challenging to be entertaining on a regular basis or does it come naturally?

Luke Charlton: No, I mean, that's my whole system. That's what I teach in my program, but, you know, um, so I get, as I said, your ideas will come from all over the place. Okay. So I have, um, let me see here. Um, So an example here is I'm just looking at all my previous emails that I've written. Um, so the start of this email is, you know, continually seeing headlines like this doesn't feel the Ozzy hermit with much hope for humanity's future.

And the headline is woman hospitalized for refusing to fight [00:38:00] in front of her. I guess. So I was just on an news website and that was one of the main headlines woman helps splice in and I had a laugh and I'm like, wait a minute. That's a, that's a, that's a great story.

Matthew Dunn: You can't not write that.

Luke Charlton: Um, is that your right?

Um, so th my, my subject line was fighting in front of your client for the first time. So I just kind of twisted that a little bit. True. But the point is I don't like they start, I don't have to come. I don't have to be like a comedian or a late night show TV host to be funny or entertaining. Um, and not all the stories are funny, by the way, it could be frustrating.

It could be happy or sad or. Whatever, but, uh, my idea is the point is the ideas come from outside of me. I don't kind of sit there with a blank sheet of paper and go, what should I write today? I see something and I go, let's write about that. Or my kids say something funny to me, or they say something that makes me really angry and I might run the email on that, that, um, What I teach is like I got hit.

I basically my program, I give people a massive list of like, [00:39:00] here are all the different places that I get ideas from. And when you you'll see them, like once you read the list or see some news articles is a great one, like news headlines, let's go on some news websites, look up some, what are the most recent headlines, Hollywood headlines, uh, investment headlines.

And there's, that's a really simple thing to do, um, to start getting. Story ideas and people love news. People love anything that's new. Um, so that's really great engaging like, um, a client of mine wrote about, um, when will Smith slapped Chris rock. Uh, and that was one of our highest ever open, open emails, um, just because it was so recent and new.

So once you know where to look, um, it's, it's pretty easy to come up with ideas, but what I will say. Um, is, I know it's a good story when it, when it sparks an emotion, like a strong emotion within me. So if I laugh or if I am really frustrated or if I am angry or whatever [00:40:00] that emotion is, um, if I feel humiliated or if, I think back to an old story of me, I like, that's a really a beginning of a great story, because if it sparks an emotion within me, It's going to be fun to ride.

Um, it's, I'm going to be passionate about riding it. And the person reading is going to feel that emotion, as you know, with, with copyright, it's all about emotion. Like the sale is like 90% emotion. So we get them engaged emotionally, which is 90%. And then the 10% is a logical part. Why they should buy it, but, um, yeah.

So if it sparks a strong emotion within you, that's the best place. Right. So just pay attention to what w what kind of interests you, um, what sparks that emotion, and then that's a good place to start with the

Matthew Dunn: stories for those that is terrific advice. I really. Yeah. I mean, you make it sound simple. I know it's not, and you've got years invested in doing it, but that is not, it

Luke Charlton: is actually, it is like pretty much that seems like it is actually pretty simple.

Like once you, um, w what probably is the hottest thing is just remembering in the beginning, like, just getting into the habit, like, cause I [00:41:00] can, I can, just, from this interview, I can tell three stories to my email list, you know? You know, cause we talked about a few different things. It's going to be a thought, which I thought was great.

And, um, and I could, yeah, I said I could come up with three stories that it's reminded me about, or I could even just tell a story about this whole interview had a great interview today. And one of the questions that made me think about my, what was it? You know, one of the things you also like, wha where did I, um, w w where was the pandemic going on?

What what's, what do you think about the situation with the pandemic? And then I could tell her, write an email about that. So, So they're all over the place, all over the place. Uh, great places are, um, when you're on sales calls, I get ideas all the time because when I speak to coaches and they're like, okay, I'm stuck with this, this and this.

I'm like, I go, that's, you know, that's a great story. Um, that's a great story, you know, so it's just really getting the hottest pot is getting into the habit of it. And that's why I give my clients a list. So they put that next to their desk and then once they kind of use it, then it's like [00:42:00] similar to me.

Yeah. Say them all over the place. It's building copywriters, listening now to make your emails more fun for yourself or your appliance. Um, yeah, it gets stories from that's another way to make them a fun feed. Just get stories from all over the place. Um, and that will make it more enjoyable for you to write these emails

Matthew Dunn: as well.

I like it. Well, let's close on that. Thank you for the lesson, by the way. That's really good. So my guest today, Luke Charlton, Luke, where does someone go to find out more and I'm going to sign up. So where, where, where do they go to south?

Luke Charlton: Yeah, so probably the best place to is. Um, uh, so I have a, uh, like a free guide slash booklet called the nine email offers that get clients for free.

So if you just go to nine ML offers.com. So the number, the number nine email offers.com. Um, they'll take you to a landing page. You can grab that booklet. Saved some different office that you can send out to your email list to book appointments, or generate some more sales. Um, and then once you, obviously, once you're on my [00:43:00] email list and you'll sort of see how my daily emails work and you'll be able to see, okay, there's ways using the story in this, here's how he's tied that story in.

And okay, now it's going into the close, right? So it's story. Lesson closes the framework,

Matthew Dunn: your, your, um, your, your, your own living example.

Luke Charlton: Exactly right. I do what I, that's why I don't, uh, I don't do any complex funnels. I could do them for clients. I know how to do them. I've been very successful with them.

I don't do them for myself because I want to demonstrate, um, to my clients, you don't need a complex funnel to be a successful coach or consultant. Um, I may do one in the future. I'm I'm writing a book at the moment, so I may do one for that, but at the present stage and just keep things really simple, just a laid back.

Build my list and email that list. And nobody said it

Matthew Dunn: works well. Cool, Luke, it was a pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for the time as you're being hands ready interview. .